At which points are catapult shots possible?

Conquest Regeln - Liga-Regeln

At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby Klaus » 16 Dec 2012, 14:58

At first let's have a look at Donald Benge's rules:

"Each catapult may shoot one shot per turn to hit any enemy piece or pieces that are one adjacent space away connected by a road or sea-lane. On the game board, some spaces are marked with a small yellow slot that point to non-connecting spaces that can also be hit by catapults. A catapult may also shoot at any piece in an adjacent field that is not completely obstructed by mountains.... A catapult may board a galleon and shoot at any enemy vessel one connected space away or at any land piece that is on a space that targets the galleon with a yellow slot...."

Since mountains are not really recognizable on the board it's obvious to skip this remark within the rules.

The essential of the rules:

1.A catapult shot hits a piece or pieces on a directly (by a road or sea-lane) connected adjacent space.

2. The following pairs of unconnected spaces are marked with yellow slots so that catapult shots are bidirectionally possible here:

a) 2-player-board

South
140 / 142 (land spaces)
148 / 149 (land spaces)
175 / 176 (land spaces)
141 / 706 (land / sea space)
171 / 703 (land / sea space)
158 / 512 (land / sea space)

North
240 / 242 (land spaces)
248 / 249 (land spaces)
275 / 276 (land spaces)
241 / 806 (land / sea space)
271 / 803 (land / sea space)
258 / 508 (land / sea space)

3. If a catapult is standing on a space with three steps a camel or knight can be hit on the connected adjacent field.

4. Catapult shots are bidirectionally possible between a seaport and the connected sea space marked with an anchor.
A catapult at the seaport could either commandeer an unoccupied enemy galleon (without regeneration) or dump the galleon by a shot.

Supplement:

On the southern island there are two fields which are situated between pairs of unconnected spaces marked with yellow slots:

Field A27 between space 140 and space 142,
field A22 between space 148 and space 149

Because there is only one field of the northern island which is situated between a pair of unconnected spaces marked with yellow slots,

field B33 between space 240 and space 242,

catapult shots starting from the above-mentioned spaces towards the fields A27, A22 and B33 are prohibited for the sake of fairness.
Special Grand Conquest characters you could deeply need on www.conquest-forum.de :

π building
Δ catapult shot
Ω takeover of an enemy camel or ship
x capture/sinking of a ship
Klaus
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby DAVE » 15 Aug 2014, 04:07

Hi Klaus. I'm not sure I agree with the way you interpret the catapult rule.

A catapult may also shoot at any piece in an adjacent field that is not completely obstructed by mountains.


you assume that the only spots that are adjacent are the spaces with steps to fields. So why would the instructions even mention obstructed by mountains. That would mean that 1 or more of the fields with steps in them would have mountains. Even though, the map doesn't clearly show where these mountain ranges are, why would they be placed where steps would be leading into a field.

instead I believe that a catapult can shoot at any field as long as it is adjacent to a space in which the catapult is on + with the added yellow spots which show you the other spaces in which a catapult is in range

I know you have done your homework, but I think the concept was to keep it simple. If what you say is true, than I believe the wording should have been, a catapult may also shoot at any piece from a space to a field that has three steps leading into it as long as it is not completely obstructed by mountains.

Don't mean to come off as bashing, just the way I've been playing it. P.S would love to have a game sometime, just have to hash out the clarification of the rules first I suppose.

Peace, Dave
DAVE
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 15 Aug 2014, 03:19

Re: At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby Klaus » 16 Aug 2014, 09:23

Hi Dave, your further contributions, questions or suggestions, are welcome!

Mr. Donald Benge didn't mark the locations of the fields and in addition, as you have noticed it, too, "the map doesn't clearly show where these mountain ranges are". That makes it a little bit difficult to understand his rules. But we have to clarify it so we are able to play the game online...

Dave, you wrote
instead I believe that a catapult can shoot at any field as long as it is adjacent to a space in which the catapult is on + with the added yellow spots which show you the other spaces in which a catapult is in range
.
Please, read the supplement (see above) and tell me whether it's exactly that what you are thinking of. On the southern island two fields are vulnerable, on the northern island only one, And that's a problem of fairness...(Little hint: a vinyl board of Grand Conquest was sold in the USA and the fields of this board differ a little bit from the fields of the "common" board we are using here!)
If I'm wrong and you wanted to call attention that other fields are vulnerable by catapult shots from adjacent spaces then download the "common" map here and list the number of the vulnerable fields and adjacent spaces you are thinking of.

would love to have a game sometime
me, too :-)

Kind regards

Klaus
Special Grand Conquest characters you could deeply need on www.conquest-forum.de :

π building
Δ catapult shot
Ω takeover of an enemy camel or ship
x capture/sinking of a ship
Klaus
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby DAVE » 19 Aug 2014, 23:40

I see what you are talking about now. I was more or less just trying to understand what adjacent was, which to me is any neighboring space or field. I see the dilemma however. I just assumed both sides were symmetrical.

Do you know how many usable fields there are for north and south, and if there is any difference. I guess I could just count them myself, but since you've caught this error, chances are you've already looked into this one.

P.S is there any other unfortunate faults to this game that I should know about ?

Cheers, Dave
DAVE
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 15 Aug 2014, 03:19

Re: At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby Klaus » 22 Aug 2014, 13:37

DAVE wrote:... I was more or less just trying to understand what adjacent was, which to me is any neighboring space or field....


Dave, I think we comprehend "adjacent" (regarding possible catapult shots) in the same way. At first the connected (by line) neighboring space or field and second the non-connected neighboring space or field if a yellow slot on one space is targeted at the neighboring space or field. In both cases catapult shots are possible in general. But keep in mind my hint in the last posting.

DAVE wrote:Do you know how many usable fields there are for north and south, and if there is any difference.


There are 22 usable fields on the southern side as well as on the northern side. But the positioning of the fields isn't quite symmetrical. Nevertheless besides the point (regarding possible catapult shots) which I described in my first posting under "Supplement" (see above) this fact is not decisive in my opinion. Donald Benge created an excellent game and in addition he gave us the opportunity to discover hidden faults! :-)

DAVE wrote:... is there any other unfortunate faults to this game that I should know about ?


Please, read my posting "Common Standard" here http://www.conquest-forum.de/for/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6. There you find some important remarks on the rules. In addition I recommend to play Grand Conquest according to an additional (not official) rule which restricts the rebuilding of pieces (see here http://www.conquest-forum.de/for/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=43 and there http://www.conquest-forum.de/for/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44. Otherwise captured pieces come back, again and again. That's not funny.
Dave, is it correct that you don't use the vinyl board? This board differs a little bit from the board we are using here. Have you already downloaded the Grand Conquest tool? Test it and then we could start a match...

Greetings, Klaus.
Special Grand Conquest characters you could deeply need on www.conquest-forum.de :

π building
Δ catapult shot
Ω takeover of an enemy camel or ship
x capture/sinking of a ship
Klaus
 
Posts: 250
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 10:32

Re: At which points are catapult shots possible?

Postby DAVE » 23 Aug 2014, 18:59

I do not have the vinyl board, that is correct. I just downloaded the tool, and currently in the process of testing it out. I just got the game about 3 weeks ago, and have been playing through the puzzle book and playing for both north and south in 2 player matches to learn the game. I definitely have lots to learn as it is so easy to overlook possible moves that could destroy you within a couple turns. I think I'm going to study through a game or two of yours to get a better idea of how to plan ahead before we have a match. I've studied the opening moves and understand the principle. Much like chess in trying to occupy the center of the board. After that I really don't have much of a strategy other than trying to eliminate elephants , storming the castle to get a siege engine inside. Really hard when your only competition is yourself :|

What have you discovered to be good opening to middle game moves. I usually try to be unorthodox and test the fence for weak spots before submitting to standard moves. There's just so much to try, and I haven't even tried the 4 player side yet.

So yes, lets start a game soon :P
DAVE
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 15 Aug 2014, 03:19


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